Dear Anthony,
I’m frustrated. I have dated several women now that I really hit it off with and then they end up wanting the upper hand in the relationship. I’m all for making a woman happy, but I don’t like feeling like I’m expected to know my place, if you know what I mean. Is there any hope of meeting a woman who doesn’t feel they have to train me?
First, I want to applaud you for being bold enough to reach out and ask a question like this. There are so many men who feel the way you do, but are either too scared to bring it up or prefer to quietly deal with it and just pull away from the woman. What’s even worse are those who accept that this is the way it should be and allow themselves to be trained.
To the credit of women, they typically don’t know they’re doing this. Many modern women have been raised to be strong and independent. There are many positive and attractive things about a strong and independent woman. Too many men find such a woman intimidating and believe that’s not the kind of woman they want. That’s unfortunate.
The strong, independent woman can take life by storm and be in control of her destiny in many ways. Unfortunately, often they try to control people as well, especially the man in their life. The fight they develop tends to be hard to turn off when it comes to their dating relationships.
But it’s not just this type of woman who has a need for control. Many not-so-strong and not-so-independent types also have the desire to control a man. All men and women have manipulation capabilities. Some people have no idea they are this way. Others are aware of this ability and make a conscious effort to work on it or use it for good (yes, there are many good uses of manipulation).
What we are talking about here is a disturbing amount of women who consciously and strategically talk about “training” a man. It’s a tactic that stems from the assumption that the man will want to do anything for her because of this love for her. She does not realize that she is using the man as an object in order to get what she wants.
That sounds very calculating and cruel. Some women, sad to say, are that calculating. But I believe most don’t realize there is any harm in it. Women light-heartedly talk about training their man, and it’s all kind of tongue in cheek that gets those who hear it to laugh in a way that says “I know exactly what you mean.” But they’re dead serious about it. Again, not because it’s wrong, but because they believe it’s normal.
It’s a very fine line between being encouraging and being controlling. There is a subtly of women to “train” a man to be what she wants him to be. What’s primarily underlying the joke is a woman’s fundamental, and understandable, need to protect herself. Protect herself from what? Well, from being hurt by a man.
What’s implicit in this need to protect herself is that men are likely to hurt a woman; emotionally, psychologically, financially, etc. They want intimacy with a man, but are petrified to get too close and take such a huge risk. Yet, women need men, so what’s a girl to do?
Sadly, one of the first things many women do is compromise their femininity. If she is too dainty, meek, quiet, weak, incapable of taking care of herself, and all the other attributes that are considered (falsely, I might add) traditional regarding the helpless woman who needs a man to take care of her persona, then a man will take advantage of her. She can’t let that happen, so a little alteration of her femininity will go a long way to better defend herself from the beastly men who would seek to dominate her.
With every compromise of femininity, a masculine trait is permitted to surface which actually diminishes her, and compromises her personhood as well as womanhood. She might now be able to stand up to the man-beast, that’s true, but she has put her womanly defenses down, exposing the man to a side of her he is not likely to respond favorably to.
Men typically take the path of least resistance. A man will retreat inside himself rather than fight back. He will adjust to his hostile surroundings rather than be a sitting duck for more punishment if he resists. The truth is, most men really want to make a woman happy. But when they sense they are not making her happy, and that maybe that he’s actually the cause of her unhappiness, he is deflated and pulls back.
The biggest problem with this situation is that neither camp considers this destructive possibility before it’s too late. There are too many other things that could be causing it, and men and women tend to focus on those things. So the root problem tends to pass unnoticed.
The result is many men have been trained to accept that if you cross a woman, you’ll be sorry. Men don’t want to rock the boat. They don’t want their woman upset at them. They want peace, even at all costs.
And women have been conditioned to believe that to love a man, she must show him how she is to be loved, not by being who he is, but by being what she needs him to be.
The problem with this position is that her needs change. Therefore, how he needs to be must change with it. The result is often a confused man who would believes that his love for her is closely tied to how he accepts what she needs him to be and do; that her happiness is closely tied to his ability to follow her lead.
Role reversals are in place. The woman is less feminine, and the man emasculated. He is successfully domesticated, therefore no longer a threat to hurt her. So she thinks.
But in fact, women are hurting themselves, while men are becoming less what she really needs him to be. As she works to avoid the original fear, another hurtful situation arises in it’s place.
Whenever femininity is surrendered, there is a diminishing of the woman and a distortion created to the male/female relationship. Controlling a person is not love.
Perhaps I’m making too much of this. But maybe not. I believe we have a hard time believing such notions as I present here because we get conditioned to see it differently, not as it is. We’re used to it, so it must be natural.
Men don’t need to be “trained” any more than women need to be dominated. They don’t need to be treated like a child. They need to be trusted to be mature and confident in that leadership role and make her feel safe and protected. He needs to be the unique, wonderful person you were attracted to in the first place, and supported in his natural role as a man in the male/female love relationship. As she takes that away from him, she loses respect for him. Quite the paradox.
As women are feminine and men are masculine, love between them can be that of mutual respect, friendship, and devotion that seeks to accept each other for who they are and build up each other in a shared life together. The alternative is distorted and confused persons losing the capability to love and be loved.
I know you feel like women are trying to train you. Perhaps they are. But maybe it’s better if you try to talk to them about it in a respectable way, and with good humor, rather than build defenses and eventually end the relationship. If they are purposely like this, then you’re right to turn and run. But working through it through good communication could result in an incredible find and tremendous mutual love.
Both men and women do this actually. (I’ve been on the receiving end of it several times.) I think the solution is to find someone you like both for who they are and for who they are becoming. Ultimately marriage should change both the husband and the wife for the better– it is a sacrament after all– but part of that is just allowing yourself to have your rough edges rubbed off by the other person. Neither spouse can artificially manufacture this process by being controlling, and both spouses need patience and the understanding that neither of them is perfect and that perfection is not a realistic standard to hold anyone to.
Mi querido Anthony, soy mujer y madre sola, y mi apreciación del verdadero amor entre un hombre y una mujer es que ambos se deben amar como le gusta al otro o como este quiere ser amado, buscando el bien del otro, lo mejor para el otro y eso se logra sólo con una buena comunicación, es decir, la comunicación visual, corporal y verbal, pues no muchas veces estamos dispuestas o dispuestos a decir lo que sentimos o como queremos que sean las cosas o que nos amen. Con el trato amable, delicado, con mucha cortesía. el amor de la pareja debe ser afectivo y expresivo. Para mi no debe existir diferencias entre la forma de amar de un hombre a una mujer y de una mujer a un hombre.
I was advised to let the man lead in a relationship. So far, that’s going great! I’m so happy.
I think something else to consider is that if this is happening again and again to a guy, as the original question implies, perhaps that guy needs to evaluate his own behavior. I have seen so many relationships where the guy was taking charge and wooing his girl for the first few months, but then just started to coast.
Before marriage, relationships either grow or die. (The same should be true in marriage, but we know many are just coasting along). For growth, a certain amount of effort is required. If one party is not putting in their half, the other party either puts in a greater effort, or ends the relationship. The relationship, if it goes on, become lop-sided, and the person putting in the greater effort has a stronger attachment of heart, and much more to lose, and this turns into control.
In catholic circles, I hear a lot of men talk in an abstract sense about traditional roles and everything that goes along with that. But a good number of them don’t seem know how to translate that into their own behavior. I have catholic and non-catholic female friends, and a lot of the “masculinization” of them, seems to be the result of being hurt by immature, prideful guys who don’t know what they want from a woman and don’t realize that their own behavior sets the tone as the relationship develops. I think a lot of guys could benefit from watching a few John Wayne movies. The Quiet Man would be a great place to start.
Good topic. Take note women. Men know when they are being manipulated. This is probably the #1 reason for breakups and divorces. Getting married does not mean the woman gets a ring on her finger and the man gets one on his nose.
The number one reason for divorce is acting selfish. If a man is not willing to give of himself and put his wife first than he should stay away from women. The number two reason is related to the first, which is usually lack of loyalty.
There is as much a problem with men not taking the lead, with expecting women to do so. Men today want to be thought of as “the sensitive type.” They don’t want to take responsibility or lead. So women, out of sheer frustration, either take the lead or continue to try to get the men to do so (here called training or being controlling). Step up to the plate, guys!
Anthony! I am one of these women….the type that “What’s implicit in this need to protect herself is that men are likely to hurt a woman; emotionally, psychologically, financially, etc. They want intimacy with a man, but are petrified to get too close and take such a huge risk. Yet, women need men, so what’s a girl to do?
Sadly, one of the first things many women do is compromise their femininity. If she is too dainty, meek, quiet, weak, incapable of taking care of herself, and all the other attributes that are considered (falsely, I might add) traditional regarding the helpless woman who needs a man to take care of her persona, then a man will take advantage of her. She can’t let that happen, so a little alteration of her femininity will go a long way to better defend herself from the beastly men who would seek to dominate her.”
My boyfriend has talked with me about nurturing gentleness and tenderness in my femininity, but working in the professional world, these are hard to cultivate, yet I see that it brings him great sadness when I am not these things. So WHAT is a girl to do?! Sometimes I feel like I am caught between a rock and a hard place. I need time, encouragement and love before I am going to feel like I can truly accomplish what he calls “tender and gentle femininity” How do I let him know that? or how do I nurture that in our relationship? I feel like it has become a lost art.
Men and women do not wait too long to sort things out or else both of you will end up old and alone wondering what happened.
Vincent
It is unfortunate that many men take advantage of women after they feel they have them and stop trying to be a spiritual leader. Being a spiritual leader means giving of the self and being a Christian role model for the family. For some reason, many men stop trying to be their Christian best after marriage and develop negative habits that lead to turmoil and pain in the family. Out of fear of this change many woman try and control the situation. It is easy for a woman to be submissive if she trusts her husband with her best interest, but if he becomes selfish, develops bad habits(such as drinking too much or flirting with women in front of her) the woman becomes scared and uses control to try and change things. If men just bucked up and were decent leaders and cared more about his wife and family than himself, in most cases the woman will feel safe and submit easily.
Pray. As women, we need to pray to the Blessed Mother and ask her to be our role model. Mary is more then willing to show us her way! Pray the rosary, read scripture and holy books that tell us about the beautiful lives of female saints and women who were disciples of Jesus. I don’t know about you, but I certainly have needed and still need at times direction in a world that has such conflicting values to our christian faith. We certainly are not going to find our role models on the screen or in the business world for the most part but we will find them within the body of our catholic church. And then, by reading, listening, praying and obeying the Spirit’s prompting’s, we will be endowed with God’s grace to bring our God given gifts of womanhood into our relationships with others.
God bless you :)
Anthony ———- thank you.